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Poster: stratocaster Date: Mar 9, 2008 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Rhino

can somebody give me a brief non-rant or non-neo socialist summation of why everyone is so pissed at Rhino? I presume they are closing down download sites...

these long winded diatribes that people post on here to make a point, I just can't read, so excuse my laziness...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Mar 9, 2008 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

Strat: It appears that Speeding Arrow has been shut down, the website is parked with no explanation. Conspiracy theorists have targeted Rhino as the culprits. Not a surprise to me, 90% of the SBD content came from here, and the original objection from the band appeared to stem from the difference between a repository of content vs. a trading forum.

I've done a fairly broad search and have found no official announcements.

As pappy said, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." Life goes on.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Mar 9, 2008 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

next lazy question, what was speeding arrow? I've never been there...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 9, 2008 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

Earl, Zephyr (Speeding Arrow webmaster) stated:

"Rhino Records has politely asked me to take down Speeding Arrow, so I have immediately done so."

So its hardly a 'conspiracy theory'.

According to the July 2006 Rhino press release:
'Rhino assumes the primary responsibility for the full range of Grateful Dead assets, recorded and otherwise, including the vast archive of unreleased live concert recordings, the band's official website (dead.net), all related direct-to-consumer and merchandise businesses, the growing variety of digital initiatives, and select band-related name and likeness licensing.'

Like it or not, they see it as protecting their investment. Although I'd question their right to order a blanket removal of all shows, including audience recordings, from Zephyr's site. I'd have thought a commitment to remove recordings when and if they become commercially available, as Zephyr has consistently done, would be sufficient.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Mar 9, 2008 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

has it not been determined that audience recordings are the property of the recorder? as long as you are not profiting from it commercially...

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Poster: filmsplice Date: Mar 9, 2008 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

It's interesting how naive some "tapers" or live traders can get. This whole discussion does not concern bands who allow recording at live gigs, though the vast majority of these prohibit sales of illicit recordings, as you well know. While general, no-profit exchanges may often be easily defensible (as far as the law), the vast majority of these traders/hoarders ignore the law and claim innocence when in fact they have profited or attempted to profit from others' work, namely the artist. Copyright statutes and royalty rates involving music are written to cover performance and manufacturing. If a band performs a cover song that is under copyright (by someone else) at a live venue, a group such as BMI can issue legal injunctions or request royalty payment. I've seen publishers' reps at a concert before, noting each cover song played at a festival, copying each song title. Whether the band plays a protected cover song live (which most admittedly get away with, though exceptions exist, as I noted) or someone physically duplicates/manufactures a copyrighted work, the user is still liable, and the user still does not have any ownership. Years back, there was a specious claim, totally absurd, that if a band's works were officially unreleased, then the bootlegger could release the recordings without paying royalty. This was a complete lie then, and remains the same today. Performance rights are specified in musical copyright descriptions, and have been for many decades. Just read the descriptions in small print (easier to read on vinyl LP releases, admittedly) on the packages themselves. If you manufacture a product with recordings not paid for, you may be liable for significant fines that will make any half-witted idea of token royalty payment (something that has been discussed by certain commercial bootleggers) seem insignificant.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Mar 9, 2008 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

^ I thought as much...it appears that we enjoy a tacet allowance of audience recordings to circulate for download here on the archive, but it is also the same "law" that is prohibiting us from downloading soundboards...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Mar 9, 2008 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

My bad, didn't see the comment from Zephyr, who I believe attempted to act within the broader trading policies of the band. I still believe, however, that the band and Rhino has drawn a distinction between an accessable repository available for download, peer to peer trading and even BT sites. It's probably in their interest not to divulge how they make this distinction to keep their options open. It's a big world out there and they'll be chasing their tails until doomsday if they want to curtail all the available content in cyberspace.

This post was modified by Earl B. Powell on 2008-03-09 17:25:45

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Poster: theGreenManalishi Date: Mar 10, 2008 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

this is going to happen in the future with many of the bands here. if you see something you like, download it immediatly, then when it's gone, you have no complaints. i'm just happy they were here at all, because now i have over 1,250 soundboard dead shows, that no one can take from me, and absolutely no complaints about the dead/rhino/whoever. i had my chance, i took it. you didn't, tough noogs. you live in a capitalist country, get used to it. just quit putting the fault on others (greedy corps, the remaining dead, or the archive) as to the way things are. in the end it is all your own fault. you HAD access to EVERY soundboard of the dead and DIDN'T act upon it.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Mar 10, 2008 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

only 1,250?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 10, 2008 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

obviously a mere amateur

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Mar 10, 2008 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

only a leecher could accomplish such a feat! correct me if i'm wrong.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Mar 9, 2008 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

strat:

"Answers a-plenty in the by and by...
...All he's lost he shall regain..."

I don't know anything about the Rhino thing... I did, however, take the time yesterday to listen to the Jerry Band version of "Friend of the Devil" from the "Theatre 1839" CD. Keith shines on the keys ....if interested, see my "reminder" post about the Jerry Estate CD sampler.

Be well,
--- AshesRising

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Poster: CompSurfahV2 Date: Mar 9, 2008 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino


No Deadheads at Rhino...

Rhino is in it for the All-Mighty $$$

RHINOgate continues

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Poster: lastcall Date: Mar 9, 2008 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

It's my guess you have or have had a job at some point in your
life. Why did you show up for work? Again I'll guess is was for the "almighty dollar". From now on I expect you to send me
MY MONEY! After all I am entitled to it,RIGHT?

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Mar 9, 2008 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

the dead sold out. period. they won't release the full shows we want, but they don't want us getting them for free either. you know they're only in it for the gold.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Mar 9, 2008 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

Some people who should have known better did everything they possibly could to draw attention to several of the more comprehensive and better known dowload sites (including, incredibly, posting links on Dead.net). The results were both predictable and inevitable.

Now, a bunch of folks are upset that these one-stop "pick a show, any show" sites are gone. While this obviously isn't good news - I'd certainly rather have them than not- IMO it's really not THAT big of deal. There's so much free GD in circulation that the idea we're all being deprived of some vital resource is simply laughable. One can argue about the wisdom of Rhino's move as a business strategy, but they are well within their rights to choose this approach.

For the time being, the only real difference is that people will have to put a little more effort into building their collections. The venue will move, and the cat-and-mouse game will continue. The genie's really been out of the bottle for some time, though: with fifty some archival releases already out commercially available and hundreds more circulating in anywhere from fair to excellent quality, barring the the emergence of a large cache of previously unknown performances, the future viability of the commercial live releases- from Rhino or anyone else - seems to me to be rather bleak. In the long run, a boycott of Rhino only makes it less likely we'll recieve anything Dead-related of worth from them in the future. At some point Rhino will move on to other, more profitable ventures, and someone else will be put in charge of cleaning up and distributing whatever's left. But whoever it is, you can bet they won't be doing the job for free any more than Rhino is.




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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Mar 9, 2008 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

I agree that this is really not that huge of a deal. A bit of an inconvenience but nothing to go crazy about. I also think that a boycott of Rhino will not make matters better. Maybe they go after the p2p and bit torrent sites or have the auds removed from here again (remember that did happen for a brief period in 05). I would also like to remind people that Rhino is not restricting our ability to listen to this wonderful music. Seems to me that for 2 years there wasn't a new addition to this site and now they are popping up like weeds. Included are more auds from Charlie Miller and the MOTB folks that are simply stunning and ours for the grabbing.

You may want to start with this one:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-03-09.nak700.glassberg.motb.82372.sbeok.flac16

As reviewed below, a great show and this aud sounds fantastic.


While I don't always understand the approach that Rhino is taking, they did pay for the right to take that approach. I suspect if they fail then our chances of hearing all those goodies in the vault will only get worse.

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Mar 9, 2008 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

1. We used to get great AUDs and SBDs that have never been commercially released(1), in an extremely convenient presentation, with great dld speed, at speedingarrow.net.
2. We cannot get those shows from the official Dead company, an arm of Rhino(2).
3. Rhino shut down speedingarrow.net (I think Zephyr made a wise decision in submitting).
4. Now, we have no convenient place to get those shows, legally or no.
5. Therefore, we are ticked off at Rhino. People daily inundate their various feedback forms with "Release full shows now!" comments, but Rhino keeps on ignoring them.

(1) Zephyr was always very careful not to share ANY commercially released material, and he had a huge list of all of it right on his download page.
(2) Rhino has so far only been releasing albums of various selected tracks from various selected shows ("Road Trips")

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Mar 10, 2008 2:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

"Some people who should have known better did everything they possibly could to draw attention to several of the more comprehensive and better known dowload sites (including, incredibly, posting links on Dead.net). The results were both predictable and inevitable."

So... I wasn't the only one who noticed those links on Dead.net. They clicked right to recently closed sites. Say thank you to those stupid assholes.

"I've done a fairly broad search and have found no official announcements."

They didn't wanna say anything; when the this archive was shutdown in Nov 2005 either. An official response came only after lots of media attention in the Bay Area and more articles in national newspapers like the New York Times. By the time we heard anything from on high, both Hunter and Barlow called the whole mess a public relations meltdown.

"2) Rhino has so far only been releasing albums of various selected tracks from various selected shows ("Road Trips")

It's called "Road Crap" in my book. Keep it Rhino. We get enough of that from the multitude of Grateful Dead shows found on the college radio sttions. We can listen to David Gans, Downtown Deb and many others for free...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2008-03-10 09:42:05

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Mar 10, 2008 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

all i want is a bitchin show released from 67-70. that too much to ask rhino balls?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 10, 2008 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

Wow, mcg, you ask so nicely. I'm positive that they'll hasten to answer your request as speedily as rhinocerously possible, especially since you only want the one and don't seem too fussy about which one...

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Mar 10, 2008 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

they're all good, robert.

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Poster: BobsShortShorts Date: Mar 9, 2008 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

They just seem to no idea at all what to do with the riches they are sitting on.They need to reach out to the fan base and get a clue. But as usual when it comes to money the Suits think they know best.The really have absolutely no idea what to do except how to alienate the fan base.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 9, 2008 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Rhino

Hey my dead-head friends, this stuff is over the top for me. I'm sorry. I "surf" alone. I listen to you all. I've learned quite a bit, and perhaps I've shown a few faults of my own. I've personally watched gdlive-dot-com morph into a flashy, useless, commercial meltdown. Several times here I've said I got the d/l for what is perhaps in the TOP-25 all-time runs at a GD venue: Fillmore East, April 26, 27, 28, and 29, 1971. My d/l came from the archives at gdlive-dot-com -- all Flacs. This was maybe 12 months ago. GONE! Again, GET IT WHILE THE GETTING IS GOOD. -- and make sure to back your stuff up. Not to mention wait until we lose Net Neutrality, and we have to get on a Toll Lane all the damn time to get anything. We saw that Comcast just tried block peer-to-peer networking with bit torrent. Question, is Rhino in the health-care business? I sure hope not!

So, here's a re-run of me trying to do my part, after having leeched over 100 GB myself. I posted this Feb 27th. If you don't want this show for free, feel free to ask me to give it to Rhino so they can sell it to you.

RFK Stadium -- Wash DC -- June 10, 1973

What a weekend. Sunday was an epic show -- 8 hours long, including breaks and the jam at the end. This has always been my favorite show. It was my 2nd time taping. The day before was my 1st time taping, for the Saturday show during the 100-degree daytime temps. The crowd for these 2 shows was between 60,000 and 100,000 people for the Dead and Allman Bros. Why is the 8-tune partial fileset Gadsden-Miller AUD for this show even posted on the LMA, with only 415 downloads? I guess it's the only AUD that's ever surfaced for this magical show. I'm glad it's here. It provided some perfect sources for my patches in "PITB" and "Eyes."

I could truthfully tell you that my choice of blank cassettes for this AUD has haunted me. That was 35 years ago. Why did I use crappy Memorex tapes with even crappier cassette housings? Was I impressed with their ad that featured Ella Fitzgerald belting out a note that shattered a wine glass during her tape playback? My tapes probably have a couple of thousand playback passes on them. For years they sat in my car's glove box in temps ranging from 35 below zero to 150 degrees above. One of the tapes suffered severe tape damage because the housing failed. It squealed like a pig and then it went "ka-put." I lost about 10 feet of tape too. I had to transfer the reels into a crappy surrogate housing. "It Takes A Train To Cry," and "That's Alright, Mama" were a remaster basket case. But why bother wasting your time telling you this crap? It's amazing to me how sweet this AUD still sounds. What a magical and timeless sound this is. No SBD creates the live music sound, feel, and sensation of being there better than a decent sounding AUD. Dark Star -- holy-crap! Ditto for Bird Song, Here Comes Sunshine, PITB, Eyes, Stella Blue, Looks Like Rain and so much more. The boys played pretty decently. A good time was had by all.

My AUD recording epitomizes the very best of the Grateful Dead "live sound" for the time. The Wall of Sound is nailed by the sound crew and the Dead for this show. Set within an outdoor Stadium, this close-up infield FOB spatially captures sound from the two Aux PA towers on the infield, behind the taper. The sound delay from the Wall of Sound to the Aux PA towers adds a touch of ear candy as it rolls around the stadium. This was by far the best sound fidelity experience I ever heard come out of a PA System, period. It was a sensational orgy of sound. At 5-feet and 8-inches tall, my arm was raised up the entire show. I was holding up my mic on the upper half of a standard mic stand shaft.

I'm trying to get this brand new AUD put up here on the Live Music Archive. imho, this AUD should be transferred to etree and LMA, and be made undeletable forever. In the meantime, I put up my Flacs on Media Fire free personal file hosting. 100 MB is the file size limit there. I had to break up the Dark Star flac for that. VBR_MP3s are also here. Be my guest...

Source:
-- Sony TC 110 cassette deck
-- single-point stereo mic
-- FOB center infield, between sbd platform and stage platform

-- Nakamichi 550 > Lexicon Alpha > Samplitude > CD-Tag > Flac-16
-- Taping, remastering, and transferring done by Monte Barry
-- 420bikeandhike@gmail.com

[...]

-- set 3 is jam w/Dickey Betts and Butch Trucks from the Allmans, and Merl Saunders

Notes:
-- This show is complete
-- Most track changes are seemless
-- Patches are cross-faded
-- SBD patches have "concert hall" echo/delay effects applied

-- Playing in the Band ----------- tape change dropout at 5:22, Gadsden-Miller patched until 6:23
-- Eyes of the World ------------- missing content until 14:35, Gadsden-Miller AUD patched
-- It Takes A Train to To Cry -- SBD patched due to tape damage, 1:42 to 1:47, 3:03 to 3:16
-- That's Alright Mama ---------- SBD patched due to tape damage, 3:35 to 3:50, 5:56 to 8:58
-- GDTRFB -------------------------- tape change dropout at 4:37, SBD patched until 5:01

19730610_2046.preview.jpg
RFK Stadium, June 10, 1973

[...]


gd_toast.jpg


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2008-03-09 16:54:18

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